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For Thursday:
Moore/Gibbons, Watchmen, Chs.I-III
NOTE: If your
edition of Watchmen has the extra
materials between chapters (the excerpts from “Under the Hood,” etc.), you
don’t have to read that. These are
“extras” added for the deluxe edition of Watchmen. Just stick to the comic for now. ALSO, take your time reading the comic and don't worry if you get confused. There's a lot going on in the first three chapters that makes more sense as you get further into the narrative. Some of the story is also a bit graphic, so read in small doses it if bothers you. Remember that the story, like all science fiction, is a metaphor: don't take it too literally!
Answer any 2
of the 4 questions below in a short paragraph:
1. Describe
the style of the artwork in Watchmen. If you’ve read graphic novels/comics before,
how it is similar or different to other works you’ve read, particularly comics
in the superhero vein? What is the
overall tone/feel of the work based on the style of the artwork and the
coloring? How does it complement the
story being told and create a sense of a “narrator” telling the story?
2. What kind of superheroes do we have in Watchmen? Are they similar to the familiar staple of
heroes we’ve seen in comics and film (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman,
Spiderman, Captain America Moore
3. Watchmen is a rather complex comic and employs many of the sophisticated techniques
of comics storytelling, particularly the technique known as parallel
narrative. This is where we see one
story in the frames, yet hear a second story being narrated by speech bubbles
or other text. Discuss a scene where
this technique changes how we experience the story based on multiple layers of
storytelling (both visual and linguistic) working together.
4. How does
some of the themes of Wells’ Invisible
Man get reinterpreted or re-examined in this comic? Where do we see shadows of Griffin
Ashley Bean
ReplyDelete1. I have very little experience reading American comics or superhero comics. I read a ton of Japanese manga, and it is completely different. From what I understand about superhero comics, The Watchmen seems a lot darker and less episodic. These three chapters, and probably the ones to follow, are all building on top of one another. On the first page we witness a death, and from then on it's funerals, more death, the world ending, and fights. There is no specific bad guy right now, and the heroes aren't even working together. Some have lost hope completely. This isn't the typical good vs. evil as of now. the coloring is never really normal, it's usually a darker tone which goes with everything happening. In an odd way, there are several narrators. Rorschach is a pretty dominant one, because he oversees the beginning of the comic and updates with journal entries. There's also the comic within the comic, which is told mostly in chapter three. All of the voices have a similar dark tone throughout the comic.
3. When Laurie storms out on Jon, she goes to see a friend (can't remember his name). The frames show Jon sitting on the bed looking at Laurie's bra, and then placing back on the bed. The speech bubbles are Laurie talking about how Jon is emotionless and doesn't care. By using the parallel narrative, it shows that Jon either does actually care, or he stares at her bra with no comprehension to what it is. This scene continues, where he is in his interview, but most of the frames show Laurie getting mugged and fighting her way through it. This ties the two characters together, and I think he wouldn't have left had he known she was in trouble. The two stories are both going through their own fight. Telling them at the same time has a stronger effect than it would otherwise.
Yes, one of the strengths of this comic is its ability to BE a comic: it's not a comic that pretends to be a normal novel, as some comics do. It's having fun with the way it tells a story. Using the devices of comic-book storytelling, it suggests that all the events are connected, however seemingly disparate. Also, by reading the events side by side, we get a much larger sense of the story, rather than the limited perspective of a single narrative thread. In essence, we can read three novels together of the same event and be that much more informed about what's truly happening "beneath the hood."
Delete2. I’m not sure I consider these characters “super heroes”. They all seem seriously flawed. But I think that might have been the point. I did notice that some of the Watchmen heroes resemble some of the Marvel heroes. The Comedian for example, he dresses like Captain America in the later scenes. But whereas Captain America wholeheartedly loves and believes in his country, the Comedian tends to be bitter and cynical towards America. I also thought that Sally was a raunchy reflection of Wonder Woman. Sally wears a provocative costume (like Wonder Woman) and comes across as very vain. She treasures the porno comic a fan gave her. We can tell that her daughter, Laurie, does not approve of her mother’s disregard for being degraded as a woman. It’s ironic because Wonder Woman was seen as a powerful female character; Sally however, is portrayed in a much different light. These Watchmen “heroes” don’t seem like they are fighting for their society, it seemed to me like they were fighting against it.
ReplyDelete4. I recognized several things that reminded me of the Invisible Man. It seemed to me like in these first few chapters, the Watchmen heroes are really only focused on themselves. Except for Rorschach, he comes across as caring for his peers. He reminds me the most of Griffin though. He puts himself higher than ordinary people. I think he only wants to warn the other heroes because he sees them as “a better class of person”. He wear that strange mask over his face, which immediately made me think of the first few chapters in which we met the Invisible Man. Beyond that I noticed that some of these heroes act upon their id desires; especially the Comedian. What kind of hero kills a woman carrying his child?
Great points here, though it begs the question is superheroes really could be better than us. Even the Greek gods were merely projections of the Greek's ideas and metaphors about life, love, and death. Superheroes are our metaphors, so they can only reflect us--they can't perfect us. Also, being an icon is a dangerous thing, since it demands that a person be a symbol. That's all well and good while you're wearing the mask, but what happens when you take it off. Can you go back to being "you"? Is there a "you" to return to? Or do they all become a version of Rorschach, who thinks that the mask is his own face, and his new identity allows him to judge and set himself apart from all humanity?
DeleteRocky Moore
ReplyDelete2. The 'superheroes' in this comic are much more real in a sense that they are relatable to a darker reality that people seem to try and hide from. Superheroes such as Superman and Batman are like the people we wish we could either be like or even wish could fight our battles for us. Not battles against monsters or evil people trying to destroy the world but battles against our own savage nature, the id in all of us and how we try so hard to mask this undeniable truth to everyone else. Superman is like our own metaphor for pretending to be something we never can be. These characters in Watchman are not perfect, and yes they do heart wrenching stuff but I think that is the point, Moore puts these 'superheroes' in the light for everyone to see, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Sounds more realistic to me than Superman for that matter. This allows Moore to highlight Science Fiction and the ideas about the end of humanity in a much more realistic fashion. These so called people that are here to fight crime and be what we want them to be are not and how these superheroes are actually portrayed shed light on the fact that we all have those animalistic qualities within us, whether your a normal person or even a superhero, no one is perfect.
3. The technique of a parallel narrative is amazing in this comic and is literally in every page or big event happening within the story. Not only is it apparent in the comic it also serves a great purpose in the story telling department along with themes and what not. For example, some of the heroes that are still alive go to the comedians funeral, and as they are there Moore has the priest giving last words for him as his body is being put back into the earth. At the same time each character has a flashback of some sort to something that they painfully remember. This whole dynamic just deepens and creates a more dramatic scene that is engulfing.
Yes, great points: they are more realistic, and they suggest the trauma and split personalities that would develop if someone really experienced life through a mask. As I suggested above, superheroes are reflections of us, so that's all they can do--exaggerate our virtues and flaws, but not erase them. They have to be a grand version of us, like the Greek gods were for their own time. But the gods also judged the human race hypocritically, blind to their own weaknesses, and we see that in many of the heroes. And some, like Jon, become gods themselves, unable to remember their fleeting humanity.
Delete2. The "superheroes" depicted in Watchmen are far from the heroic. Although, some of them may have good intentions, like Mr. Manhattan attempting to understand whatever science he is working on, others are just flat out villainous. We can take this book in two ways: the Watchmen are a satirical representation of superheroes, OR readers are viewing the superheroes unmasked for the first time. For example, Mr. Manhattan has serious isolation issues. Behind closed doors, him and Jupiter (this name is so much easier to remember) have relationship issues and he can't be intimate, but as soon as he appears in front of people, he has his shit together! On the other hand, the Comedian, who somewhat resembles Captain America, is far from patriotic. He shoots a pregnant Vietnamese woman. He shoots her! The real Captain America would never kill someone so innocent, yet alone a pregnant woman. The satirical and ironic stance of this comic is somewhat...comic.
ReplyDelete3. I'm obviously obsessed with Mr. Manhattan, so the prime example of a parallel narrative is evident towards the end of chapter three when the reader sees Mr. Manhattan on Mars, but we still read what is happening to Jupiter (which I think is better name) and what the current crisis in Afghanistan. This technique is clever, yet somewhat confusing. It's clever because we don't need to see exactly what is happening with the person who is speaking all the time. However, it's kind of confusing in the scene with the kid reading the comic, mainly because I have no idea what the relation from the comic in the story is with the comic itself. Sometimes it is clear, but other times, it just throws me for a loop.
Bria Gambrell
I think this is a great idea: the comic does satirize the heroes of yore, particularly in the Golden Age when costumed heroes were protected by a veneer of innocence. The murky values of being a vigilante were hidden for tender eyes, and the heroes had no qualms about going to and fro between their disparate identities. However, the book is also a suggestion that all superheroes would be a bit like this: torn by their humanity while trying to be superhuman, an embodiment of virtue and power. Yet in the end they act quite childish, with the Comedian trying to rape a fellow superhero and deciding that no life truly has value. Or what about Jon, who comes to the conclusion that there is no fundamental molecular difference between a dead body and a live one? What kind of protector could he be? But how else could he be, when he is deified by the American public?
Delete1. The artwork is very pastel and somewhat dull. It's unique because it uses a lot of darker shades and toning. It complements the fact that it's a very dark. If you compare DC to Marvel, you'll find that DC is the darker comics of the two. In DC, for example, you encounter stories where not only villains die, but superheroes as well. You can find at least one retelling of any DC comic where someone dies. The heroes themselves can die; no one is completely safe. Comparing The Watchmen to graphic novels such as Sin City, the only color used in Sin City is red. Which symbolizes not only blood and death, but sin itself. However, Sin City is somewhat of a darker novel than The Watchmen, and it being black and white adds to its death and darkness. The Watchmen and The Avengers (both groups of superheroes trying to "fix" society)--- in the Avengers case, they'll always prevail. They may have slip ups, but they always come back fitting together like a puzzle. On the other hand, you have the Watchmen who began as the Minute Men. They were a group of rag tag superheroes who developed a friendship (and in some cases, relationships), and they functioned based off of dysfunction. No two people agreed, but they were still successful based on their comprehension of right and wrong. The Watchmen encounter significantly more setbacks than that of the Avengers, yet they're more violent. Just a few comparisons I've picked up on.
ReplyDelete2. You have Owl man who's the "leader," which in my opinion is a satirical version of Batman. You have Rorschach who's a superhero because he's incredibly smart and has very profound detective skills; however, he's borderline insane. His insanity is typically triggered by his anger. You have Adrian who is comparable to Superman in speed, strength, and wits (who hung up his cape for a normal life in business). Mr. Manhattan is similar to the Martian Man Hunter from the Justice League. He can change his size; he's literally a walking physics experiment. In my personal opinion, Moore chose to create his own characters simply to create his own story. Using the other superheroes, the reader would already know their strengths, weakness, villains, and story line. However, creating a completely new story with new characters gave him a chance to express his imagination (even putting himself in the comic, if he so chose). The fact that these characters are still human and attached to other members of society, biologically and psychologically, they still have compassion for other humans, despite their actions and thoughts. At the end of the day, even though they're super human, they still have flaws (along with innate morals and ethics).
Great responses...this is very Sin-City like, particularly as Moore was a close associate with Frank Miller, who wrote Sin City. Both writers liked to parody and examine the super hero ideal, though Miller did it with actual heroes, particularly Batman. Yet Moore takes types, faintly similar to the heroes we know, but vague enough to make drastic changes. This allows him to ask if a super hero could be 'normal' in his or her abnormality. Can a symbol remain human? Can he or she follow a normal moral code when they are asked to defy typical behavior at every turn? Griffin said he had transgressed the conventional moral order, and it would be hard to expect a super hero not to do the same. If they had to follow the "don't kill anyone, save everyone" rules of society, what 'good' could they do? And would we allow them to follow such a code of law in the first place?
Delete1. I read a Batman graphic novel for Grasso's Graphic Novels course a couple years ago and that art style is what I would most liken to the style Moore uses in Watchmen. And I guess it should, considering they're both superhero stories, but with Watchmen it's definitely more realistic; and not in a way that's necessarily pretty. Within the first few pages there's a close up of Eddie's face and I think "I can see ALL of his teeth" or when Rorschach breaks into Danny's house the first(!) time and he's eating cold beans and it's all over his face and it's meant to be gross. You would never see Superman with beans running down his chin and it's little details like that which really makes you look at these "superheroes" as real people who do some weird stuff as a profession. Overall the tone of this is really dark. Probably the brightest scene I've read in the first three chapters was when Laurie went to California to talk to her mom and the entire time they're arguing with each other and there's panels of Eddie's funeral intertwining with it.
ReplyDelete2. In Watchmen, superhero comics exist and these vigilantes popped up in some kind of effort to emulate them. It brings up the question of which one is the "real" superhero. There's the ones in the comics (in this comic) that are superheros and are awesome and amazing at their jobs. And then there's the living masked crimefighters that are doing the same thing and are incredibly awkward. There's a scene where we get flashbacks of both the Minutemen and the Crimebusters that really struck me. You remember those cartoons from when you were a kid of the Justice League. They all sat around their big white table and had this huge monitor behind them and they made their grand plans and were awesome. And then in the Watchment, the Crimebusters meet for the first time and Nelson's got a single piece of paper pinned to a board and you see them just standing around like kids at a middle school dance and I could feel their awkwardness. Moore makes it feel like his superheros are poor imitations of what comic book writers have created and that dynamic would never have worked if he'd used already established icons.
Yes, the power of this comic is how he deconstructs the idea of a super hero, which is pretty ludicrous on the face of it: guys dressing up in suits to catch hookers, thieves, and drug dealers. It's a bit over-the-top and pathetic, especially since in real life there are very few super villains. It's all petty stuff, and there is no way to stop all of it. Even a Dr. Manhattan would have to give up in frustration. So why do it? Also, in the scene you discuss, we see how little most of them have in common...some believe in the ideal, some are here out of curiosity, while others think the entire career is a sham. What holds them together as a group, or makes them more than the sum of their parts?
DeleteAimee Elmore
ReplyDelete2.) The superheroes we have in Watchmen are different than the ones we usually read about. They don’t seem like they really liked what they were doing. And in the book they are doing things we don’t usually see them doing. In the comic book you see the superheroes save people from their main enemy. Here you see them trying to stop riots. There is superheroes that is the Comedian kind of looks like or has pieces of him that reminds me of Captain America. But he sure doesn’t act like Captain America.
4.) This does have similarities to the Invisible Man. The main guy Rorschach kind of looks like the invisible man or at least how I picture him. He is also very secretive. And they both are trying to figure some big mystery out. The book and the comic are also written in the same way, very factual.
What makes the Comedian an anti-Captain America? After all, he's willing to do anything for his country, and wouldn't a true hero have to do dark, ugly things in the name of freedom (think American Sniper)? Could a superhero keep his/her nose clean in the service of justice? Wouldn't they have to commit some questionable acts for the greater good? And doesn't the Comedian simply say that he is willing to do anything (and mock it) to serve his country? Of course he's a terrible person, but can we ask our superheroes to be good people if they are willing to risk their lives to save us day after day? Big questions...
Delete2. These super heroes seem way different than the ones that are so well known today. For example, they aren't all entirely good. For example, we see the Comedian both try and rape a woman, who is also a crime fighter, and we see him kill a woman who it appears he has impregnated. The super heroes also seem silly in comparison. They don't work well together, or even seem to really like each other. They also seem to die insanely easy. For example, one dies by getting his cape stuck in a revolving door. So far they don't appear to be typical super heroes at all. I think that the author had to create his own to represent his story. I don't think that anyone would take too easily to seeing their favorite super heroes portrayed in such a way. I mean, who would want to see Superman or Batman struggling to be crimefighters and dying so easily? They're supposed to be the good guys!
ReplyDelete3. I think that this technique of parallel narrative is what I originally found most confusing about this story. When I first started reading it I couldn't tell what was going on at all. I couldn't keep any of the characters straight and I was super frustrated. It actually took me a while to realize that the pictures that I was trying to use to decipher the text didn't go together like I thought they would. The scene in particular that I am talking about is at the very beginning when they are talking about the death of the Comedian. Characters are talking about the death of this man, who they don't seem to realize is the Comedian, but the pictures are of the man getting hurt and falling out of a window. After I realized what was going on, it got easier to understand later on. It seems to help the story talk about more than one character at once. We have the groups speaking, and the groups being portrayed through images. I think that once you figure out what is going on, a lot is added to the story through this technique.
Cora-lee Snow
This is a busy and confusing comic: one of the main ideas that keeps getting repeated is the idea of a comic book itself: you can read it forwards and backwards, and on one page, you can 'see' many different events and time periods. Is life like a comic book, where all the events can be seen at the same time, even if they're meant to be read one way or another? If we could read life this way, what patterns would we see? What order? What logic? The comic suggests that everything is connected, though the question remains, is it connected for a reason--or is it dumb, random chance?
DeleteShelby Pletcher
ReplyDelete2) I have very little experience with comic books. Apart from a phase where I read Sailor Moon back in eleemtnary school, I can't recall any other time I have picked up a comic book until today. So I had a hard time grasping everything that was going on and keeping up with all of the characters. Therefore, I found myself trying really hard to cling to some sort of familiarity by looking for the A-typical superhero type that Ive heard about and watched in movies my entire life, and struggle even more so to find that. If anything, these superheroes are a raw and realistic depiction of what any average human being would be or become if they were given that much power and intelligence. These heroes seem to be marked by a sense of selfish evil that drives most of their motives, but I think they just generally tend to fall under a more moral category, which is why you couldn't necessarily classify them as supervillians. However, this is not to say I would consider that a bad thing. This intriguing, unique premise just makes me want to read it all the more.
4) I certainly got many references to the general themes we saw in the Invisible Man throughout the first 3 chapters of the Watchmen. For instance, Rorschach is so incredibly brilliant, but almost too much for his own good. He worships his own intelligence and therefore finds himself angry when the people around him don't measure up to the bar he's naturally placed at. Much like Griffin. As for the group as a whole, I got a general vibe that brought me back to our class dicussion on Tuesday about when power (invisibility in Griffin's case) just ends up revealing the depths of the human heart's pride and evilness.
What makes Rorschach so interesting is how normal he seems to be: he has no real power, and beneath his mask he's a very uninteresting, even tragic, fellow. But once he dons the mask he believes he's superhuman and becomes so. In essence, he thinks he's invented invisibility and means to use that power to sort out the bad from the good. Nothing really separates him from Griffin other than his mission: he doesn't want followers, but wants to punish those he deems to be evil. We applaud his mission, but his methods are terrifying--and very similar again to Griffin. Can the right people be punished in the wrong way? And are we comfortable in letting Rorschach decide who deserves to be punished--and to die--in the best interests of society (a society, ironically, that he wants no part of).
DeleteCayla Odom
ReplyDelete1. I have read the graphic novel for V for Vendetta, so this type of artwork is something that I have seen before. The colors are really bold, but the shades used definitely emphasize the graphic nature of the story. For example, the red of the blood on the very first page is the first thing that you notice when you open the novel. In my opinion, the artwork is very bold, and grotesque nature of the art adds to the darkness of the story in a way that words alone couldn't. It does make the work seem even more real and disturbing. I did notice that the artwork seems to help the narration very effectively during flashback scenes. When Laurie was visiting her mother, the flashback scene was introduced by first showing a panel that contained a camera going off that was done in black and white. This clearly acted as a way to break up the present with the past. Later on, the present story line is shown in dark colors which contrasted nicely with the brightness of the colors in the flashback story line.
2. I almost feel like every character in this graphic novel is an anti-hero and an unreliable narrator. It is just really morally ambiguous... and so far I don't like anyone in this whole piece. Also, none of these characters really reminded me of any established super hero characters. I know that the comedian's suit kind of reminded me of Captain America's. However, I think Moore created these characters, because to use established characters would include adopting the connotations and characteristics that the characters already have. So, I think that the previous knowledge of these characters would take away from the story that he wanted to create. So, instead he developed these new characters that are previously unknown. They are blank slates, and in many ways I think that does give the author freedom to be a little more graphic and dark.
I think Moore is challenging us to identify with characters that are so different from the superheroes we grew up with, even though on the surface they have a lot in common. But these heroes don't get to retreat into a mythical world of good and evil. They are iconic heroes that live in a realistic world, which doesn't allow them to moral latitude that Superman, Batman, and others have received in their tightly controlled comic-book world. Would we like real superheroes, given their tendency to set themselves above us, and decide what is right for us? And what point would such people become our enemies?
Delete1. I don't read comic books. I don't think I ever have actually read one, but I have seen a lot of them. The colors and things in this one seem a whole lot darker than anything I have ever seen in one (a Batman comic excluded). It just seems darker and more forbidding. The colors that are used though, I, to use Cayla's word, bold. They immediately draw your eye. Especially the red of the blood on the first few pages.
ReplyDelete3. I think it's really interesting how there are two different things going on. The best part is right at the beginning. You are reading passages from Rorschach's journal, but he isn't anywhere around. The pictures show people cleaning blood up from the streets, and a man (the Comedian) about to fall from his window. In a similar but not quite the same vein is when you got to hear and see Rorschach interacting with the other former superheroes, warning them about the threat as well as digging for information, while at the same time you to get to read passages from his journal discussing how much he looks down on these people for giving up and on the town itself for sinking so far. It might just be me, but the guy doesn't seem to be too mentally stable...
Great responses; of course the question is, if Rorschach isn't mentally stable, what man/woman who wears a costume and runs around fighting crime is? Is he an extreme example of the personality split caused by living two lives (where the mask becomes YOU, and not the reverse), or is he simply the most unapologetic about it?
ReplyDelete